A General Discussion on the merits of 70s Roots

[bmd]

Having noticed Mick's comment about the lack of posts here I thought I'd have a little chat about my personal feelings for Roots and Dub these days...

I first got into Jamaican music because of Roots and Dub, but now I find a large proportion of it lack lustre, repetative and next to much ealier Reggae the poorer cousin. That's not to say that there aren't many many gems out there, of course there are... but...

One of the things that gets to me the most about Roots era recordings is the downright amateurish musicianship of way too much of it. I get so fed up when I hear yet another band that couldn't get in pitch with one another. Repeatedly asking myself why they couldn't at least tune to the one thing in the studio that was un'tuneable, the Organ, and yet time and time again... my ears jar... urghhhh... not to mention truly lack lustre un-inventive Deejays.

What was it that made this era such a mess? Everyone stoned? A boom in the commercial success of Reggae worldwide and therefore more amateurs making it into a studio.. ? What?

Your comments and ideas please...

[Richter Atmosphere]

What I love about the mid to late 70's reggae sound is the rawness, passion, the bounce that even gets me to start dancing into a groove. I love the production sound. There's plenty of Dionysian joy and blur to stir my soul.

Amateurish sounds don't turn me off. I love 60's garage rock - which is as simple and retarded as it gets, but the volume, and raw sounds just burst out the speakers.

Also, I like the idea of the little guy walking into a studio to sing on a song. No star, like that story of Lopez Walker singing on the street and Roy Francis letting him in the studio to record.

[bmd]

I agree ... but... only if they're any good at what they want to do, and if they can tune their instruments.

Like I said above.. 'That's not to say that there aren't many many gems out there, of course there are... but... '

I think you're probably just taling about those gems aren't you R?

;-)

[Richter Atmosphere]

Yeah - I'm talking about the gems that I've heard up to this point. Most of the stuff that I've bought are compilations and full lengths reissued on CD - which I'm assuming are some of the sweetest creams from that era. The B&F discography surely spoils me. I haven't really delved into single by single collecting. That seems like a dangerous mission to sign up for. So much to track down and too much money to spend.

I did place an Ernie B's order this morning which should arrive tomorrow (I live within fifty miles of his operation).

I bought

Prince Jazzbo - Choice Of Version (which I taste tested through a file sharing site as MP3 - man, I love his DJ work, especially over the Studio One rhythms)

Winston Edwards And Blackbeard - Dub Conference At 10 Downing Street (I superdig the Blackbeard dub aesthetic and treatment)

V/A - Black Slavery Days (I like this and Jack Ruby Hi Fi more than Marcus Garvey and the Heartbeat Ruby anthologies. Every Burning Spear release compared to Social Living falls a little short to my ears. Something about the way the songs are mixed on the Heartbeat Ruby discs sounds a little off to me. I haven't heard original vinyl singles for those songs. Sounds a little too separated to me instrumentally and vocally. I thought that it would sound better if the sounds blurred together more. That's just my little rookie opinion though).

[Richter Atmosphere]

Oh, and it does annoy me when the singing is extremely off key. But really, to my ears, I hear this kind of thing more on Rocksteady releases (at least on some of the compilations that I've heard.). Like the singers are straining too much. Maybe this is kind of phenomenon is covered up in some of the dubby 70's reggae mixes and all the echo.

[bmd]

Totally agree about 'straining' singers, and yes there are plenty of those in Rocksteady tunes,.. I am particularly not a lover of Roy Shirley, not that he isn't a good singer, just has a style I don't get on with.

I have two of the three Lps you've ordered there R>A> and both Choice of Version and Black Slavery Days are pretty much must haves, you will really enjoy them. I was lucky enough to find Warn The Nation, my favourite tune on the Black Slavery Days Lp. on 7" and even luckier that the person who had it, gave it to me with a smile.
I originally got choice of version as a cdr from someone. Then later I got it on original release S1 Vinyl on eBay for some paltry sum. this is proof that when you really like something and you have it free, say on a cdr, you will go and get it at some point on Cd/Lp. Making checking out stuff using P2P quite justified in my opinion, especially when every last cent you have gets spent on Reggae....

[bmd]

if you are in exploration mode, here is some stuff I can heartily reccomend as essentials in my own case..

Cd Album Abyssinians Satta Massagana Heartbeat
Cd Album Chantells (and Various others) children Of Jah \ chantells and friends Blood And Fire
Cd Double Album Congos heart Of The congoes
Vinyl Lp Dennis Brown wolf and leopards
Vinyl Lp Burning Spear Studio One presents ... Studio One
Vinyl Lp Burning Spear Rocking Time Studio One
Vinyl Triple Lp Lee Perry & Friends Build The Ark
Cd Album Bunny Wailer blackheart man



ah well just a few, you probably already have 'em all..

:-)

[Richter Atmosphere]

abyssunians - satta massagana - yeah - actuallyl listened to that one on the way home from work yesterday. really love the way the background vocal harmonies weave through the songs!

chantells - children of jah - this was one of the first non lee perry produced anthologies that completely floored me. really clear productions but not over produced. this is the release that probably got me hooked on hearing 70's reggae in discomix / showcase style!

heart of the congos - love this one too. i read about it in the liners to arkology, but at that point, i wasn't hip to the fact that a lot of reggae reissues use different cover art than the originals, so when I'd see this set in shops, I wasn't sure if it was the Perry produced one or some later 90's production. When I finally rememered the title and bought it, it blew me away. My car stereo had been stolen, so I actually listened to it on the drive home from some record shops with a discman and headphones. It can't be legal to drive on the freeway with headphones on...

Dennis Brown - Wolf And Leopards. Haven't heard this one yet. Will check it out. I absolutely love a lot of the other ones you recommended, so I'm sure that this one will be cool too.

Studio One Presents Burning Spear - Yes. Besides Social Living, the Studio One BS albums are my favorites from him.

Build The Ark - Since these haven't received the remastered CD treatment, I decided to run each track through Cool Edit and depop and click to see what kind of results I'd get. I've done it for one track so far, and it did sound better to my ears anyway. Not sure what hardcore reggae fans think of this type of sound manipulation. I want to do this for the rest of the set and the Open The Gate one too.

Blackheart Man - listened to this once, and the instrumentation and production and singing didn't jump out at me. I'll give it another listen though.....

[bmd]

Blackheart Man is a grower..

Fighting Against Conviction is one of the greatest Roots songs ever written in my personal opinion.

[zapatoo]

bmd said:

...but now I find a large proportion of it lack lustre, repetative and next to much ealier Reggae the poorer cousin.

Very well put, Mikey - I'd say that was the reason I "took a step back" from JA music in the mid-70s.

These days, I'm discovering many gems from that era, though I'd still find an entire evening of mid-70s roots a bit too much hard work

[bmd]

In mitigation though Zapatoo, you would have to say that there's a lot of repetitive lyrical content in Earlier Reggae, I mean just how many songs about love and gals can you stand, it's more on a 'Pop' music tip, however combine the two for a tune such as Little Roy's 'Bongo Nyah', and you have what for me is the highest combination of all - Concious Early Reggae.

[gryffe]

Cd Album Abyssinians Satta Massagana Heartbeat
Cd Album Chantells (and Various others) children Of Jah \ chantells and friends Blood And Fire
Cd Double Album Congos heart Of The congoes
Vinyl Lp Dennis Brown wolf and leopards
Vinyl Lp Burning Spear Studio One presents ... Studio One
Vinyl Lp Burning Spear Rocking Time Studio One
Vinyl Triple Lp Lee Perry & Friends Build The Ark
Cd Album Bunny Wailer blackheart man


Wot - No Johnny Clark Mikey??!!!!!!!

Hard to disagree with that list though

[lankou2]

there is a lot of 70's roots reggae artists that i enjoy to a certain extent but i will always come back to the same ones for a good listening session.One label i will put apart from the rest is once again Studio One, bcs , for me, Studio One is simply that, Studio One! imho, it defies any categorisation.
my fave Spear tunes are on studio one, my fave Gladiators tunes are on Studio One, and i could go on with a number of other artists like The Viceroys (who encompassed several styles, anyway), THe Wailing Souls (i'll admit loving a lot more of their output than just that done at Bentford Road), Horace Andy...
i always come back to the same names : guys like the Mighty Diamonds, Dennis Brown, f mc Gregor (who did his fair share of clunkers too, btw!),Congos, Earth & Stone, Cornell Campbell (who isn't really 100 % "roots", just like J Clarke!), Black Uhuru (who are in a thing of their own, really) come to mind.
UK acts like Matumbi Capital Letters, etc...are also brilliant on a number of tunes.
what baffles me sometimes is the rep some lesser known artists (for instance Lopez Walker or Silford Walker) : i don't really get it why they are held in such hugh esteem by the roots afficionados, whereas artists such as Ken Boothe, Alton Ellis and Delroy Wilson are held in the backseats though they really put out some wonderful committed songs in the seventies.
Ken Boothe once told me : " in the mid-seventies, after my period of fame in the UK, a lot of fellow artists advised me that i should grow locks so that i would be on top again.I replied that it just wasn't me : everyone is a baldhead at one stage of his life and it never shows what is in the heart.Inever followed that bandwagon, knowing that rasta was deep in my heart and i didn't have to show it bcs religion is personal".
another point that i definitely agree with is that most DJ'sfrom that era are rather boring, apart from a few like I Roy, Jazzbo, Dillinger, Far I and a few others...I really think guys like Ranking Joe, Lone Ranger and those who would score high during the rub a dub days were much more innovative : they could be deep, funny, committed and anything else...
a lot of dancehall DJ's have got much flak thru the years but, imho, many of them have offered JA music a lot of killer tunes in the 80's and 90's.
as for dub, well, not my thing most of the time, apart from a few classics, i never bother to listen to them much.The most frequent one being LKJ in Dub 1, hardly what a hardcore dub fan would take as a reference.
nowadays, it is almost as if any obscure long deleted recordings released on notable re-issue labels were granted the status of "forgotten classics", and it is basically a thing that i can't endorse. the untouchable status of Bob Marley's works is also something that makes me cringe sometimes!

[adlewbj]

i think a large part of the problem bmd describes comes from the comparatively amateur manner in which reggae was composed (as compared to how pop music was made in the "big time" studios of the uk and usa)

that is to say, my understanding of much of roots music was that it was assembled, often on the spot, from disparate components. the basic track was laid at some point, possibly just when the musicians were in the studio with nothing better to do than putter around with tape rolling. then maybe some organ overdubs were made (so much for synching with the organ...it probably wasnt even in the mix when the other instruments were being recorded).

then the producer brought a whole line of vocalists in to overdub sometimes very ill suited lyrics over whatever riddim happened to be handy, whether they fit or not. some of these vocalists were good but many were not. some of the actual performances were good but many again were not. sort of the "throw the spaghetti against the wall and see what sticks" approach.

and then we get to hear only what got released. *how* it was decided what to release could be just as helter skelter as the recording process and we usually dont see it in context. for instance singer A has a hit with riddim A so producer A then puts out upteen songs by other singers on riddim A, none of which are worth a shit, taken objectively, but riddim madness in the dancehall causes them to become popular. then many years later trojan or one of the johnny come latelys in the reissue business reissues them as some kind of "long lost classic" and you get people like bmd observing "hey this stinks! whats all the fuss?" while others proclaim it as the most rootsy best thing they have ever heard.

and it got worse as time went on because what was originally a fairly clean riddim has been overdubbed again and again in hopes of reselling the same thing with minimal reinvestment and maximal cost recoupment.

thats how it always seemed to me anyway.

finally i think it more than true that "rare" stuff is rare for a reason: no one bought it originally because, in the context of the times, it stank. kind of like a lot of music now considered "classic"...at the time it was too deriviative, common or just downright bad to get anywhere.


one love
llib haj

[lankou2]

as much as i agree with most of your post, Bill, i think some other factors have to be taken into account as far as why certain recordings remained obscure.
i also think a good number of true gems remained obscure because they were cut by labels which didn't have enough financial power to compete with the main ones.This is particularly obvious during the ska and even more so rocksteady eras : the general output was nothing short of amazing, but it is mostly the big labels (Studio 1, Treasure Isle, Beverley's,Buster,Pottinger...) who enjoyed the highest popularity, until some smaller producers finally managed to challenge them around '68.when you get to know who played on what, you end up noticing that it was mostly the same pool of about 40 musicians (by and large), which could be restricted to an inner ring of 20...
the bigger labels developped better because they had more commercial clout and the best record pushers (who in their turn soon became major producers...).
an exception , imho, which is hard to grasp is the Merritone label, one that belonged to the famous Khouri brothers -hence a strong financial power - but didn't seem to achieve many rocksteady chart successes, apart from a few hits by Hopeton Lewis
this also leads us to the payola system, which is still very much alive in these days: a fact not too often mentioned!
such early gems sometimes enjoy a retroactive popularity because such or such group actually featured one or more members who would get popular in later stages of JA music.
if certain tunes didn't become hits it is also for the aforementioned reasons : they wee just drowned in a sea of releases and not every producer could afford to push his pres further than the diehard music buffs, besides, many artists were basically kids trying their luck, many were called few were chosen, for whatever reasons but music isn't necessarily the easiest way to earn a living.
of course, i only mention the 60's/70's, for another element got into the game once more and more reggae artists signed deals on international major labels...
besides, teher is one thing i don't really get in your post : it is that "Johnny come latelys in the reissue business" tag. what does that mean ?
that some labels are entitled to reissue recordings and others wouldn't be for whatever reasons??
personally i don't care how which or which label markets its stuff - it is the marketing ploy which can be irritating, then to each his own, everybody doesn't have to have the same tastes.
i wouldn't be too happy if the reissue business was limited to b&f, pressure sounds, heartbeat, trojan & souljazz. Not that i hate their records, far from it, but i strongly believe their outputs mainly reflect the perspectives of a very limited number of people on the unfathomable history of JA music. would it mean that only those people would have the final say about what is good or not ?Besides, i am all too glad to see some veterans get their dues and get some money from those reissues ( i am not going to speak about the pirate labels and those who always recycle the same Treasure Isle music to no end!). anyway, the Duke Reid legacy is such a mess that the artists who recorded for him would deserve to regain control of what they released for him:i know it's just wishful thinking but it'd be only fair.

[adlewbj]

>that "Johnny come latelys in the reissue business" tag. what does that mean ?

i didnt mean that in a manner of being a negative; i was just referring to like blood and fire, makasound, auralux, pressure sounds, souljazz etc as "johnny come lately"s as compared to the grand dad of reggae revive, trojan. while b&f have been around a few years now in my eyes they are still newcomers on the scene that was more or less championed and kept alive by trojan. i didnt mean that they were or werent entitled to reissue stuff; in fact they generally do it better than trojan (in the less recent past anyhow), i was just implying that its trojan who has largely kept the market alive over the years (at least from my perspective in the states).

one love
llib haj

[lankou2]

funny you should say that, from Europe i'd really say the same thing about Heartbeat, who've only been at it since the late 80's but who really helped Studio to gain a much higher profile ! ; ))

[dsr4681]

bmd said:

Blackheart Man is a grower..

Fighting Against Conviction is one of the greatest Roots songs ever written in my personal opinion.

Well said Mikey ! Fighting against Conviction (aka Battering Down Sentence) is one of my all-time favourite reggae tracks. Apparently Bunny Wailer wrote it whilst serving a sentence for Ganja in '67/68.
Having said that, I think the whole 'Blackheart Man' album is a masterpiece.

[semindecent2]

Mikey,

Been thinking about what you wrote here - just wondering, are you saying that 'percentage wise' - the roots era [i'll just say 1974-80] had that many more 'bad' tunes compared to the ska and rocksteady days?

Off top - I would say there was some pretty off key singers in the roots era [even though some people call it harmoy??] - but I don't think the musical parts were that horrible.

I think the roots era had an edge on things when it came to lyrics [despite realizing that many singers didn't probably live up to their lyrics]...

Will have to say though - I got into reggae because the roots era --- but now I'm finally seeing the quality in earlier styles, especially ska. And yes, the musicianship is quite impressive.

Still - at least right now - I think that each era of reggae has similar percentages of good and bad songs. [with the exception of today's music, I think the amount of clunkers are outnumbering the gems]