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Post by Freddy C on Mar 18, 2006 11:19:55 GMT
Anyone here have any reliable info. as to how any JA music releases and re-issues actually sell these days? (from any country of release - not just yard).
I read Bob H. on BAF recently saying that those Greensleeves Riddim albums only do about 2000-3000 copies on average. They come out on vinyl and CD. Those sales figures are scary. It was also suggested that the bashment market is considerably bigger than the revival market. Something here doesn't compute. I saw the costs Steve Barrow cited for the artwork on their releases so BAF, at least, must be able to move good quantities of their releases.
BAF product also isn't ghettoised by being stuck in the reggae niche market. Their discs are handled by a mainstream distributor (instead of say, Jet Star), reviewed in the likes of Mojo and Q and presumably sell well to the (mostly white) 30 or 40 something rock market.
...But I don't want to focus on BAF's successes primarily, more the overall picture for different types of releases from a variety of sources.
A reissue 7" I bought last year "Life Table" by Tyrone Taylor, which as far as I know has been unavailable anywhere since it's original issue in 1976, was supposed to be a pressing of 200 copies. 200?
I'd like to think you could move 1000 of these with some decent distribution!
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Post by The Favorite on Mar 19, 2006 1:58:24 GMT
3000 is still kind of the mark for a full-length revive CD/LP -- if it does more than that, it's good. less than that is problems..
--
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Post by zapatoo on Mar 19, 2006 12:03:49 GMT
...and how do sales (or revival) compare with those for other genres with a perceived limited audience???
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Post by edward on Mar 19, 2006 12:36:09 GMT
I read a piece in a paper last week which said in 2005 you needed to sell on average only 2276 copies of a single to reach No40 in the UK singles (pop) chart. This rose to about 4500 for a No20 placing and about 18,000 to get to No1  |
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Post by Freddy C on Mar 19, 2006 14:09:51 GMT
Thanks folks - hopefully more info. to follow. 3000 is still kind of the mark for a full-length revive CD/LP -- if it does more than that, it's good. less than that is problems.. -- If that is 3000 across the two formats that is very low. I'll draw up the following hypothetical sales figures based on nothing but pure speculation on my part: Sales for a (well regarded) reggae CD in different markets: UK ..............................500 USA ..........................1000 Canada ..................... 500 France ....................... 500 Germany ................... 500 Netherlands .............. 500 Japan ........................ 500 That makes 4000 - but that's only a handful of territories and what I would have considered fairly poor figures. Pure speculation, of course but to do 3000 (75% of this) would require considerably worse sales in all these regions and a include sales from everywhere else that I've omitted!!  Not very promising. |
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Post by skunkride on Mar 19, 2006 15:33:41 GMT
don't quite your day job// |
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Post by lankou2 on Mar 19, 2006 17:31:33 GMT
sales for a JA hit seems to vary from 3000 to 5000, for the average tune -and here i mean local sales for 7" - i don't even take into account the strange way the JA charts are made these days.
of course, then there are the sales abroad and the tunes that transcend categories, such as Sean Paul's, some TOK.
the last Beenie Man album on Virgins eems to have sold 50 000 copies.elephant man has recieved a gold disc in japan, a silver disc somewhere else, but nowadays, the quantity needed to be certified silver or gold isn't as high as it used to be.
on the average, a label that sells between 4000 to 10 000 copies of their first pressing can be proud of it.but it really depends what sort of release it is, one can't compare a Damian Marley cd with an old school repress or an anthology (unless it is that sort of budget price comps Trojan sometimes releases, which reach gold from time to time).
to round it all up, i'd also say that there are local artists who sell much more than a big number of artists who are the order of day in JA. it is the case in france, for instance, where several acts have received silver and gold discs more than once.
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Post by Freddy C on Mar 20, 2006 23:08:44 GMT
Bump! (how unsubtle  ) |
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Post by I on Mar 20, 2006 23:38:26 GMT
Records have never sold huge in Jamaica. Considering that most people do not own a record player this is hardly surprising.
The only reason that Jamaican music has become so huge is due to the migration to Britain in the 1950s and 1960s.
In the 1960s, young men in Britain would buy up to 30 records per week, every week. This is why reggae became so big. If it had not been for the British market, there would have been very few records issued. Since the late 1970s, ever since British West Indians have assimilated with British culture, fewer and fewer records have been sold.
Observer
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Post by ringo on Mar 21, 2006 12:46:29 GMT
The quantity of records released displayed in a year-by-year chart, based on dated titles from 1960-1985, from the Roots Knotty Roots website: <img>http://www.nghthwk.com/rkr/images/statGraph.gif</img> |
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Post by zapatoo on Mar 21, 2006 13:39:45 GMT
Though "released" doesn't equal "sales", Ringo, could this be a useful barometer of some kind?  |
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Post by ringo on Mar 21, 2006 14:22:28 GMT
Yup, meant to say, the more that are sold, the more that are produced, if the normal rules of supply and demand are applied.
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Post by prajna on Mar 21, 2006 20:57:38 GMT
for the music in general, those figures are very depressing, considering the crap that sells millions of copies.
however, from a new zealand perspective, they are quite comforting.
a friend and i operate a small label here. we put out an album recorded by a friend's (reggae) band independently a few years ago. its sold about 1500 copies. we had been expecting sales in the region of 5,000 copies. however looking at the figures cited in this thread, and bearing in mind that the total population in nz is 4 million, the sales dont seem too bad.
we've since put out 2 compilations of recent nz reggae, with emi, which have sold about 15, 000 copies each.
another act, fat freddies drop, who do a reggae-soul-funk thing, will soon hit 100, 000 sales of their indpendently released album.
it seems the nz reggae scene is in pretty good shape considering the miniscule size of the market.
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Post by Funky Dread on Mar 21, 2006 22:46:38 GMT
Prajna,
I can relate to the sales figures from New Zealand, as the total population of Norway is 4,5 million - slightly more than your country.
Sales of 15.000 copies in NZ or Norway would equate sales of 225.000 in the UK market (which is 15 times bigger); while NZ sales of 100.000 copies (an almost unheard-of success for an indie in any country!) would equate sales of 1.500.000 copies in the UK.
You got me interested now - can you please tell me where I can buy these albums?
Respect
Funky D
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Post by rosko on Mar 21, 2006 23:18:42 GMT
In Canada, Gold records are - I believe - 50,000 sales. Platinum is 100,000 and the ultra rare "DIAMOND" status is given to releases that sell 1,000,000.
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Post by prajna on Mar 22, 2006 0:36:40 GMT
hey funky d, the albums i spoke about are: unity pacific - "from street to sky". this was the album which we released indpendently. the two compilations of recent nz reggae are called "conscious roots" vols 1 & 2. these were released via emi/capitol. fat freddy's drop are quite popular in your part of the world. they built up a solid local fan base by touring and putting on quite wicked live shows and then resisted some quite good deals from majors to release their debut album independently. they are now very happy chaps as a result! the album is called "based on a true story". you should check either of these online nz music shops, if you're interested in the albums: www.smokecds.comwww. realgroovy.co.nz both will give you some info about the albums, links to other nz reggae and smokecds has sound samples. hope you do pick up some of those sets. let me know what you think if you do. |
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Post by lankou2 on Mar 23, 2006 13:42:44 GMT
Freddy, just one example that will contradict you as far as sales go in france:
Universal Struggle by Anthony B sold over 25 000 copies!
and as i said there have been reggae / dancehall artists that have sold much more, most being local ones.
as an aside, Sean Paul's first album reached the glorious figure of 1500 copies!!!!
it is only when it was endorsed by the US mainstream radios that the local FM's (mostly crappy ones, if you ask me!) decided to push it some 16 months after Gimme the light was released.
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Post by Freddy C on Mar 23, 2006 14:13:40 GMT
Freddy, just one example that will contradict you as far as sales go in france:
Universal Struggle by Anthony B sold over 25 000 copies! Those figures I posted were just to try to work on that "3000 copies" figure that I've heard is an average (??) I took what seems like the worst possible scenario - 500 sales in each of several significant markets (I can't even imagine sales as low as that) and still reached well over the 3000. Really glad to hear that some stuff is doing much better! Hope folks will continue to add any vaguely relevant info. here. I wonder how much a few adverts in selected magazines can increase sales for a revival album rather than say, just an appearance in the likes of Ernie B's new release lists and some chatter on reggae boards?  |
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Post by lankou2 on Mar 23, 2006 16:33:17 GMT
i do think ads in selected mags help a bit, considering the vast amount of releases BUT my best bet would be heavy touring and a strong respect for the audiences: those are the main parameters that helped Anthony B reach such a nice score in France, no doubt about it!
i did come as if he were a demanding superstar, and he learnt the specifics of the country scene gig after gig.That he is a strong performer also helped a lot, of course!
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