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Post by kalcidis on May 12, 2013 23:12:50 GMT
Why is legit in quotation marks? It's good that a lot of these big money tunes get available for anyone wanting to own a vinyl copy and it's equally as good that the money reaches the artists pockets instead of collectors. I'm dead certain that Roy Dobson prefers to get £500 in his pocket (or what ever they might pay) for someone to reissue his singles rather than seeing them go for £200+ a copy on eBay of which money he gets nothing.
I do however not in any way support bootlegs. But it's the whole thing about vilifying reissues of rare songs where deals are set up that just sounds more as a greedy collector crying about his record collection losing its worth. Reggae records is obviously a speculation market for many and if you play it as that then you'll have to accept that these things happen.
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Post by kalcidis on May 12, 2013 23:36:09 GMT
I'd love to hear you take this debate with any of the producers that got paid for their reissues. Tell them that they're undermining the music and diluting reggae culture from what it is about by making available their music once again.
I have no clue if Roy Dobson was paid by the way. As I said earlier I'm not trying to defend bootlegs -- but the legit reissues. If you got stuck on the name just replace it with any other artist who did get paid for the reissue.
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Post by kalcidis on May 13, 2013 0:11:13 GMT
Who are these companies? For you to know that they »glean info from the internet and target particular tunes, that have no connection to the music and exploit artists by paying them a pitance« must mean that you have insight not only on the contracts they've done with the artists/producers but also on what the people behind the labels think and know about the music.
Are you talking about Pressure Sounds, DKR, Iroko?
And who are these artists that are starving and agree to take pittance while the vulture reissue magnates live kingly on the artists flesh and bones?
I'm not saying you are wrong but for you to make statements like that and expect me to accept your version of reality at least give me some names. You're painting up a horrible story of exploitation. The way I see it there are four affected groups in this. The artist, the reissue label, the buyers and the collectors.
The artists get money (unlike what they get from the second hand market). The reissue label gets some money but also pay the artists after mutual agreement (apparently they are negotiating holding a cup of water in the middle of a desert with the artists dying from thirst). The buyers manage to get a clean and most often good sounding record for a much more worthwhile price than the originals. Then we have some unsatisfied collectors...
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Post by I on May 13, 2013 9:43:13 GMT
I have many thousands of originals from the early 1960s on labels like Island, Blue Beat, Ska Beat, Rio, Doctor Bird, Carnival, Pyramid, Blue Cat etc, all in near mint condition as I am the only person ever to have owned them. I also have recently bought reissues on Studio One, Wild Bells, King Edwards, Tuneico, Top Deck and dozens of other labels. I do not discriminate over them. I do not give a fig if a record was pressed in 1962 or last night in Willesden, nor whether a tune is available on CD only. You say you love the music and sound system. If this was true you wouldn't care about such petty considerations. Non Caribbeans have been repressing this music since the early 1960s. The Blackwells, Kings, Goodalls, Shallits in the early 1960s, when they would dub releases from copies of records imported from Jamaica, right up to the Barrows, Motions, Universal Trojans, Rock-A-Shackas, Dub Store Specials in the modern age. Are Trojan's Roy Shirley and Slim Smith compilations or Blood And Fire's I Roy, Yabby You and Keith Hudson sets any more legitimate than Bob Brook's Question series, the Roy Dobsons and Michael Anthonys, the phoney Rolando Alphonso R&Bs and Pyramids, the 'Seven Wonders Of The World' on blank selling for fifteen quid?
What is legitimacy in such a flithy business as the music one anyway?
Reel
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Post by kalcidis on May 13, 2013 10:54:46 GMT
Apparently no respect in there, mate. My name is Kalcidis. Learn it. And obviously you can't stand for shit of what you said because you've deleted your original posts and changed your last one since I saw it yesterday.
By the way Sweden and Switzerland are two different countries.
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Post by kalcidis on May 13, 2013 11:24:27 GMT
Your very first post was about the legit reissues taking advantage of artists (no way to see it now -- since you deleted all your posts that were nonsensical gibberish) and also the three bootlegs. I responded to that. You know nothing about my collection apparently. Not that it makes any difference for me and my stance but I would guess that 9 of 10 records in it are originals. Does that give my arguments more weight now or what?
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Post by kalcidis on May 13, 2013 11:50:37 GMT
I've seen three incarnations of your last post and it just gets better and better with every update. I'm totally confused because if you haven't deleted the posts you've changed them so many times that I have no clue of what you're saying or not any longer. But yeah. Discussion is probably over by now. I won I come from an extended family of farmers and George Michael is Greek (as me) so perhaps it makes sense
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Post by kalcidis on May 13, 2013 11:52:05 GMT
Also it was this part I was referring to that you now have deleted (...again):
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Post by rockstone on May 13, 2013 12:47:28 GMT
I must admit there has been a deluge over the last couple of years of tunes that were scarce getting a re-issue. The Defenders "Our Rights" looks like a boot. Which roy Dobson and Michael Anthony was released? Mike Anthony is still active and has done some work for UK producers so maybe he ihas a handle on re-issues. I did wonder about Give thanks and praise, corporation of love and some of the french re-issues. I wonder who that guy at onlyroots.com is dealing with in getting out the Sonia Pottinger tunes. Who controls that because at one stage Treasure isle were re-issuing some of back catalogue as was Coxone. Its a tricky business. Limited re-issue of Al barry's Morning sun saw the re-issues selling for up to £100 and then al barry decides to re-issue it again. I recently sold 2 re-issues of Rasta Business for £50 a piece. Some people have more money then sense. I try to avoid bootleg but if the quality is good and I need the tune of course I don't ignore it. Most collectors I know are the same
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Post by rockstone on May 13, 2013 13:01:03 GMT
Well both the tunes you mention are known by anybody who is interested in roots music. Roy Dobson's tunes were self financed? Is he still about? Must check for the Mike Anthony tune been after it for a long time
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2013 14:58:59 GMT
Yes , thanks for wasting our time. What do you mean most of thread deleted, you have deleted every post you made apart from the last one! I was following this thread (started by you) with interest from the early hours of this morning, heaven help anybody just coming to the thread now - its unintelligible.
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Post by niceone on May 13, 2013 20:34:47 GMT
Kalcidis don't waste time on this mug. Gives it the big one about being a sound man but don't want to name his sound. Just another country boy trying to create a ghetto backstory. See him on all the forums... champagne mouth, lemonade money. Long time sound man my arse, waterhouse cock
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Post by ringo on May 14, 2013 10:52:01 GMT
Another classic from watercloset
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Post by kalcidis on May 14, 2013 11:24:28 GMT
niceone: Yeah. Should have figured from the start. What a plonker.
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Post by rockstone on May 14, 2013 14:29:47 GMT
Good to see you are still about ringo: I have no idea what that guy was trying to say. At least he put me on to a copy of Living in Sorrows, there is no way I would shed a couple of hundred quid for a copy
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2013 22:09:18 GMT
niceone: Yeah. Should have figured from the start. What a plonker. A Swedish guy in a Del Boy cap uses the word plonker. Genius.
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Post by kalcidis on May 15, 2013 16:34:38 GMT
One of my closest friends is always telling me to check Only Fools and Horses thinking it's the bonnet de douche. But I don't know. I will some day.
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Post by rockstone on May 20, 2013 11:23:03 GMT
I can't believe the amount of quality re-issues that are out this month. It is like someone went through my wants list and said, there you go Mick
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Post by mghifi on May 20, 2013 19:44:54 GMT
This thread reads like Brion Gysin applied his surrealist cut-up method to it.
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Post by rockstone on May 22, 2013 21:55:09 GMT
I don't know why you bother Waterhouse. I can agree with you to an extent on bootlegging, however artists don't get a cent from the originals that go for silly money to some people who are collecting catalogue numbers and never play out the tunes. The arrogance of you to question my morality is insulting to say the least. Like Reel said enough bootleg business going on, producers in the main never looked after the artists and in the main it is a squalid business. In the main I have supported the music where I can, and still do, but when aboot comes along of a Studio 1 rarity do i give a fuck about screwing Coxone, I don't think so he ripped everybody off. The tunes you speak of are going for silly money and the only people who benefit are 2nd hand record dealers. You say you have been in the business since 75, yet you are afraid to identify yourself, you should know better.
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Post by rockstone on May 22, 2013 22:28:12 GMT
You questioned my morality when you asked me think about my actions in considering buying boots and then deleted the post.
You talk about not being able to buy the original becuase of coming in late in the day, but who benefits, not the artist anyway so I still don't get your point.
Sounds to me like you enjoy the exclusivity of rare tunes. Nothing wrong with that, that is how a sounds reputation stands or fall. I admit to getting pissed off when a tune I hold gets re-issued but I don't pass that off as something else.
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Post by waterhouserock on May 22, 2013 23:00:57 GMT
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Post by rockstone on May 22, 2013 23:07:34 GMT
I have bought boots, and most soundmen I know have tunes, even plates which are questionable, so it goes. I take your point on the relationship between internet activity and represses. I would say discussions of forums and other social media have contributed to deciding which tunes to re-issue whether it is legal or otherwise. Such is the vast output of Jamaican music that there are always a next tune that someone holds that has not been re-issued. I think people like Blood and fire, Motion Rock a shaka, soul jazz, pressure sounds have done a great service to reggae music by reviving or even highlighting killer tunes from the past. There is some truth in what you say but I think the language you use discloses a feeling of belonging, as those with a connection to the music and those who don't belong as them that have no connection. Jamaican music was always about building bridges to cross , not building moats to prevent entry. Just a thought.
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2013 23:08:12 GMT
This is even more boring than the Zombie Rangers thread!
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Post by rockstone on May 22, 2013 23:11:07 GMT
well go back there gripe, this is the reggae section, something you know nothing about!
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2013 23:14:10 GMT
Just as well for you its not the English language section then eh Humpty?
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2013 23:18:54 GMT
well go back there gripe, this is the reggae section, something you know nothing about! Tut tut,there we were getting along famously and you have to go & throw in a double negative.Don't you know the Queen's English?
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2013 23:24:59 GMT
Leave him alone Taff. He's probably busy putting more Aswad CD's up for sale on Ebay.
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2013 23:57:44 GMT
Oh please stay, you seem like a great guy. I know we can be friends.
Oh and I'd like to present you with an award for most modified post in Chatty Mouth history. That last paragraph was modified so many times its a wonder it didn't delete itself.
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2013 0:26:07 GMT
Err, at the risk of calling you a liar, the last paragraph does not remain unaltered. And I'd like to present you with another award. This time for the most comebacks after saying you weren't going to post any more in Chatty Mouth history. On current form you could make it a hat trick by winning Chatty Mouth Twat of the year award, but I don't intend to give that one up without a fight though.
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