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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2012 12:26:58 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2012 13:01:15 GMT
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Post by Benj52 on May 31, 2012 13:05:21 GMT
Yes, thanks for the heads up, I saw that doc mentioned in the listings.
It is a recent one, right? What did you like about it, apart from the droll Mr Clarke?
I've seen 10 Years in an Open-Necked Shirt a long time ago, pretty funny as I recall.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2012 13:35:11 GMT
Its more than recent, it looked bang up to date. You haven't lived till you see the live, one man and a mic version of Evidently ChickenTown. There are a lot of "talking head" style interviews with various contemporaries (from the manc scene especially) and normally its a case of "shut up you pretentious prick", but most of the contributions were excellent.
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Post by Benj52 on Jun 6, 2012 12:37:03 GMT
Well, I really did enjoy that documentary. The missus told me to stop laughing so loud at regular intervals.
I was fortunate to see Mr Clarke just before the heroin-induced darkness descended, when he toured Australia and NZ with New Order in November/December 1982. He performed with Invisible Girls backing tapes and the tape I have of his second Wellington gig (Thu 08 Dec 1982) is one of my most cherished possessions. As well as doing pretty much all his best poems, he did a 20 minute stand-up interlude which is funny as feck, as much for the delivery as the content.
I remember the gig well, not only because of the tape, but because it was the night of my final school Prize-Giving and I attended in school blazer and tie. As I had scooped a few academic prizes, the old man in a rare moment of generosity bunged me $20 which got and my 2 mates in despite the $15 official price on the door. Hardly anyone there as it was a rescheduled gig (Chch had cancelled) so got as close to my heroes as I am to this keyboard.
Anyway I digress, but one thing had always intrigued me which was that when JCC introduced Evidently Chickentown he said “This one is about my home town (i.e. Salford)... no it’s not it’s about Wellington Noo Zeeland!... (Jeers, Cheers, Boos)... actually don’t worry, I spent a very interesting afternoon here, actually” – this has always left we wondering what on earth he may have got up to on his day off. Wellington is no Vegas or Florence, that’s for sure.
Well, according to the documentary on BBC4, Peter Hook from New Order tells the story of JCC having to be left behind in NZ to work off some drug debts to some skinheads. It is not clear whether we are talking about the sme tour (although I am fairly sure that it is), but this remark might explain 1) his good form on the night, 2) why around 10% of the audience were the aforementioned skinheads (known as ‘Bootboys’ locally thanks to their DM’s and notorious for their evil and violent ways).
The drugs themselves would almost certainly have been the infamous ‘homebake’, the uniquely NZ solution to the absence of Thai heroin previously readily available until around 1979 – it involved extracting codeine from Panadol tablets and turning that back into morphine for injection. Not v nice. Rife when I was a teenager.
Those with access to the BBC iPlayer may care to take a look a The Old Grey Whistle Test dated 30/05/2012 within the Punk Britannica series which has three tracks from JCC, 2 of which have the real Invisible Girls backing him – look for Lord Sir Martin Hannett on bass and the silly Disguise in Love moustache cut-outs worn by the band. I thought ‘Readers Wives’ was particularly impressive.
The TV Smith doc is also very good.
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Post by kas on Jun 7, 2012 15:15:45 GMT
Thanks for the memories, Benj. I was exposed to JCC's stuff as a teenager, when I happened to find the "Live At the Electric Circus" mini-LP. Found the "Disguise In Love" album as well - I hope I still have it somewhere, since I had to part with a good deal of my vinyl at one point. He performed a gig here in Helsinki last year. I only heard about it afterwards... Here's a clip off the "Open Neck Shirt", not one of his poems, but a standup routine: www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wOx8_Fwsh0&feature=related
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Post by Benj52 on Jun 7, 2012 15:39:03 GMT
Cheers, kas, yes that sort of joke.
My fave is the one about the man who goes to Rome on holiday despite the dire warnings from his hairdresser about the food ("it's all fish and chips, mate"), the weather ("pissed down every day we were there, except for one when it was was foggy"), the architecture ("everywhere we looked they were pulling something down") and the low chance of seeing the Holy Father ("You'll be lucky to see the top of his hat") are all repudiated by his experience as told back to the hairdresser on his return -
"Great food" "Look at this suntan - didn't get that under a fecken solarium" "Architecture... had to be seen to be believed"
"And what about the Pope?" the hairdresser asks, "Bet you didn't see him"
"Oh, wait 'til I tell you about the Pope - there we were in St Peter's Square, 5 million other faithful - I can just see the top of his hat. Suddenly he points his be-jewelled staff my way, the crowd sort of parts like the Red Sea, he walks straight up to me, dripping jewellery, and d'you know what he said?"
"No", says the hairdresser, "what did he say?"
"Who cut your fecken hair?!!!"
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2012 17:30:36 GMT
In 1981 I went to see the Banshees at Manchester Apollo & couldn't get to my seat because the mixing desk had spilled over onto it,being too young to go the bar a bouncer told me I'd have to stand at the front of the stage which I duly did. Thus when the supporting JCC came onstage I was stood bang in front of him,in my own, and he ripped the piss out of me being his biggest fan throughout his entire set while I stood there a 5 foot nothing pip-squeak (no offence benj) frozen to the spot in terror. My favourite gag is the one about the guy who can't get served in a pub cos he's covered in elephant shit, he tells the landlord he sweeps up behind the elephants in the Tarzan movies,the landlord says that must be a well paid job "actually I only get 5 quid a week", says JCC "5 quid a week for such an unhygienic job! Why don't you get a job on the buses or sign on" " What! And leave showbiz!!!"
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Post by mmike56 on Jun 7, 2012 18:46:00 GMT
Saw him at Reading Univershity, Linton Kwesi Johnson on same bill,
Also at Reading a la Invisible girls, whatever happened to Pauline Murray?
Answer to a heckler "there's a train leaving in 5 minutes, be under it" - classic.
Peace Gp
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Post by Benj52 on Jun 8, 2012 11:17:38 GMT
Or as in the Wgton tape "can't hear you mate, your mouth's full of sh*t!" (no offence, Sean)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2012 12:09:01 GMT
Dont forget to watch the 2nd batch of programmes on BBC4 tonight from 9pm all the way through to the early hours of Saturday morning. Theres also a Rory Gallagher bio on the BBC Boring channel at midnight.
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Post by Benj52 on Jun 8, 2012 12:46:01 GMT
Yes, yes. Will do.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2012 23:35:54 GMT
So what did we learn from the 9PM doc?
There is absolutely no archive footage of the punk era that hasn't been shown countless times before Caroline Coon and Joanna Lumley are one and the same Jimmy Pursey,Billy Idol and Mark Perry are talentless oiks SLF are an embarrasment JCC is a legend The music in next weeks post punk programme will tower over most of the groups featured tonight (clash, pistols, buzzcocks excepted)
Yes, it was pretty disappointing.
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Post by Benj52 on Jun 9, 2012 7:42:29 GMT
I quite enjoyed seeing Sham69 live, musically speaking.
The Punk at the BBC afterwards had a pretty strong selection, even if it did insist on cutting John McGeogh's solo in favour of The Lurkers - wtf?!!!
Seeing the Au Pairs was worth the price of admission alone! And playing JD from start to finish for a change was nice.
We also know that Siouxsie Sioux is and was pretty damn gorgeous.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2012 7:44:23 GMT
I realise time was a consideration in the 9pm doc, but something that might have made it more interesting was if they had asked some musicians who came after the punk era how punk had influenced them. And I know it was Punk Brittania, but to totally gloss over the American bands as if they never existed was criminal. These bands did lots of shows over here at the time and were massively influential.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2012 7:48:30 GMT
Still to watch the other programmes Benj, sounds good from your description. The Au Pairs were great. The Banshees are probably due a revival soon, I played Join Hands recently after Taffs mention of it and it was a hell of a lot better than I remembered it -The Lords Prayer is still pish though. It was their only album from the first 5 or 6 that they released that I was disappointed with at the time it came out.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2012 13:37:46 GMT
I quite enjoyed the 9pm show,you have to remember there isn't an endless vault of footage from the early days,not too many people took their cine cameras with them to the 100 Club so there is what there is which is why there a couple of dropped bollocks in there such as "footage" of the Kings Road in 1977 with a guy in a black leather jacket with a Crass logo painted on it. The show after was much better but surely to god there must be a better performance by the Buzzcocks they could have used other than an excruciatingly bad 16 Again & ditto the Damned's Just Can't Be Happy Today. Highlights for me were the Rezillos,Joy Division, Generation X,Au Pairs & Gang of Four. Glad to see youve seen the light over Join Hands Roland & yes benji Siouxsie was & to be fair still is one sexy woman & a fantastic performer. Just starting to watch the synth programme, Roxy Music & Tubeway Army a good start thus far
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2012 13:43:44 GMT
Then it was hit the fast forward button for most of the rest New Order aside sadly. Forgot to mention Magazine & Dr Feelgood from the punk show were both excellent too.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2012 13:52:01 GMT
Thanks for pointing out the obvious to me Heddwyn, but that was exactly my point -the programme last night proves beyond any doubt that unless somebody is sitting on something, all the footage from that era has been shown ad nauseum. So to counter that, get another viewpoint by asking musicians from eras that came after punk what they thought about this period and how it influenced them. Rather than rehash John Lydon interviews from past BBC programs and kid on its new stuff - or maybe it was new but he just loves that horrible sleeveless diamond jumper so much he wears it every time the BBC interview him. Buzzcocks 16 Again was still miles better than lots of stuff on that 90 mins performance footage programme - The Lurkers -really? Sham 69 - still a joke. SLF -a Clash tribute band before tribute bands even existed. The Members -I'd rather listen to Coldplay (and I hate them so much I would rather have a season ticket for Ibrox than listen to their turgid sub U2-isms). The PIL footage of Death Disco (aka Swan Lake) was a nice surprise and the real deal compared to some of the comedy acts on this programme. And yes Au Pairs, Gof4, The Clash, Magazine and Joy Division was well worth seeing.
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Post by rockstone on Jun 10, 2012 1:03:19 GMT
Just watched the 2nd installment of Punk brittania and unlike the 1st installment it was only half good. The discussion on punk up to the summer of 77 was good. However all this bollocks about it being relevent until The Clash signed for CBS elevates The Clash to a position they just did not hold. Punk was The Pistols everything else was a derivitave. Punk died before the media dubbed the summer of 77 as the summer of hate. Too much BBSism beinging out Don fu&king lets to tell its story. The London Calling was a turning ppoint, bollocks, The wheel had turned around the time The Clash were puuting out that poxy album Give em enough rope. Once Stardom seeking Strummer had twigged the worm had turned Magazine and XTC along with others had put out groundbreaking albums that would have not been in favour had it not been for PUnk. Not enough time spent on where PUnk reallly mattered and that was in NornIron where SLF and Rudi and Protex and others were crucial to change on the streets of the towns where they came from, Maybe not because of what they said but because of the fact that it didn't matter whether you were a hun or a taig. anyway must roll a spliff..
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2012 9:04:07 GMT
Didn't you call me illiterate recently?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2012 9:46:57 GMT
Agree with most of what Pebbles wrote in the first few sentences, some of the ramblings after that I'll leave to others to try and decipher. XTC never even made a groundbreaking album in their own minds, much as I like some of their early stuff. Magazine were a band apart from the punk scene, too visionary to be straightjacketed by punks musical limitations. The social aspects of the Northern Ireland scene that Pebbles put forward is probably true, but SLF are a cartoon band and the others not really worth commenting on. SLF were so in touch with what was going on in their own patch they relied on their manager to get over their viewpoint by writing the lyrics for them!! It was all a long time ago, but if I remember correctly wasn't he English anyway, so what the flub did he know about Norn Iron?
So, must try harder Pebbles, D+. Or try posting when sober or not stoned.
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Post by rockstone on Jun 10, 2012 11:03:48 GMT
Catch up Emlyn, leave those sheep alone!
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Post by kas on Jun 10, 2012 18:50:25 GMT
Has it ever occured to you that we are mostly just old geezers arguing about things that may have been relevant when we were teenagers?
I'll get my coat...
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Post by sisaket on Jun 10, 2012 19:06:19 GMT
Too right it was relevant-all of it was better than what went before on the UK music scene-Truth is the gems were f*****g gems and still are!!! the rest, well just serves as a marker to score the top stuff by....and that means Sham,SLF et al.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2012 23:17:09 GMT
Catch up Emlyn, leave those sheep alone! It ain't what you say it's the way that you say it
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2012 23:05:50 GMT
Now thats more like it. The post punk episode of Punk Brittania was excellent. Kudos to the BBC for a whole hours worth of new interviews and unseen or rarely seen archive footage from the main players, last weeks programme on the punk period was just a rehash of old footage and interviews. 1978 to 1982 must go down as the most creative, interesting and musically challenging period in British musical history in my opinion. After the briefly exciting, but ultimately musically inferior period of 76-78 young British musicians really came to the fore with great releases from Magazine,PIL, Gof4, Wire, Joy Division, The Slits, Associates, The Fall and many many more bands - interesting to note most were from outwith the insular London scene. Then along came synth pop and rubbish like ABC and Duran Duran, the Xfactor bands of their day and it all imploded. Great times though. The watch again should hopefully be on BBC iPlayer for those who missed it soon, presumably from the link below. www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00s81jw/episodes/guide***Luckily for me the NME has just hit the streets and I was able to paraphrase their review and kid on that this was all my own thoughts***
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2012 14:07:12 GMT
Just watched it & yes Roly it's a fantastic watch. Among many highlights for me was the live footage of Crass's Do They Owe Us A Living,the Pop Group's We Are All Prostitutes described as "avant garde jazz meets King Tubby at the gates of he'll" & how well Viv Albertine has aged.
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Post by I on Jun 17, 2012 10:49:08 GMT
Viv Albertine has aged into the middle class lady she always was. The Slits were well-mannered gals, and in the case of Ari Slut an extremely rich one. Ms Albertine has merely reverted to type. All the group's punk aura was a pose. Rich bitches acting like they were born on a Peckham council estate when in fact they came frrom nice, relatively comfortable families.
Burn them.
Reel
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2012 10:55:46 GMT
Not like you to speak ill of the dead.
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