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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2012 15:51:24 GMT
Discussion on The Fall messageboard invisionfree.com/forums/thefall/index.php?showtopic=1896Sample quote from the discussion "The Beatles are just easy listening - Cliff Richard was more adventurous in his day" As to the question being posed. It's a no brainer isn't it? The Fall are a more challenging, innovative and creative band than the British version of The Monkees ever were. Apart from Yellow Submarine obviously!
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Post by dmc on Jan 26, 2012 18:12:32 GMT
Not sure about The Fall but The Television Personalities Could Have Been Bigger Than The Beatles.
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Post by edwardgeorge on Jan 26, 2012 19:58:18 GMT
mostly for obvious reasons; beatles, unfortunately.
edwardgeorge
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Post by I on Jan 27, 2012 12:21:57 GMT
No. The Fall are shite. Mark E Smith is a Salford slag totally bereft of talent, which is probably why he joined the SWP.
The Beatles were the best pop band Britain ever produced. Virtually singlehandedly, though with debts to Buddy Holly, the Everly Brothers and Motown, they changed the world of music and the world forever...and for the better.
The only people who get anything from the Fallen are callow, seedy, embittered sluts like Gryffe and his ugly ilk.
Reel
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Post by Benj52 on Jan 27, 2012 12:56:50 GMT
I must admit that the Fall record covers (up until 1983 at least) are way way better than the Fabs - I have spent more time in my life deciphering Hex Enduction Hour than I ever did Sgt Pepper.
Grotesque is just superb!
I'm thinking as a lyrcist, the Bard of Salford has some cracking one-liners, unmatched by the Liverpool lads.
Exit This Roman Shell
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2012 13:00:47 GMT
..or to put it another way- The Fall cater for people who like challenging, forward thinking music as opposed to the bland novelty music that seems to satisfy mr reels needs.
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Post by Benj52 on Jan 27, 2012 13:32:44 GMT
I am not sure that reggae falls into the bland and novelty category, unless you are suggesting all reggae tunes sound alike.
Or that all music pundits look the same.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2012 14:29:06 GMT
Yes thats right benjamin, reel never posts anything on the "other music" section and only listens to reggae music and nothing else, doesn't he?
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lol
Dairylea
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Post by lol on Jan 27, 2012 17:21:02 GMT
Still pointlessly berating the Beatles! As I said once before, without them there would have been no supposedly challenging, innovative and creative music such as the Fall are alleged to produce. Its just silly to make such claims. See yah Monday.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2012 17:33:05 GMT
Well actually Lol, The Fall would have existed without The Beatles. Mark E Smith is a massive fan of early rock n roll in general and people like Bo Diddley and Link Wray in particular. Also he is a massive fan of the likes of Can, Neu and Iggy who all came after The Beatles and were in no shape or form influenced by the trite juvenile sentimental crap The Beatles specialised in. All of which I'm afraid makes your waffling above totally wide of the mark. Nice try though. The Beatles made music for approx 10 years, a blip on the radar. So much great music made before and after them if your not too lazy to find it, or just listen to Radio Bland all day where tosh like Hey Jude gets repeated ad nauseum.
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Post by grumpy on Jan 27, 2012 19:03:57 GMT
This is like asking, "Which is tastier: chocolate or clementines?" They are both edible but otherwise don't really compare.
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Post by I on Jan 27, 2012 22:30:42 GMT
Linky, why did you announce your departure in high dramatic fashion only to return skulking as usual? Whether you are Linkous or Gryffe or iammarkesmith doesn't really matter. The point is I like you and am glad you're back.
In addition, I have exalted you.
Reel
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Post by edwardgeorge on Jan 28, 2012 5:31:24 GMT
in terms of pop music, beatles created the ground bands like the fall (and bands the fall like) learned to walk on.
the twentieth century is pretty much theirs.
they cast quite a shadow.
edwardgeorge
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2012 0:31:51 GMT
I have a confession to make...on this site I have stated many times my dislike for the Beatles but on a recent "stock take" realised that I own every single one of their albums & during a recent drunken pub singalong night realised that I new the words to every single one of their sickly hits. Now if the same DJ had played constant tunes by the Pretty Things,MC5,Velvet Underground,Fugs,Deviants,New York Dolls,13th Floor Elevators or The Sonics I can't promise I'd know every lyric word perfect...so YES I do like the Beatles.........I met a hero of mine,I shook his hand,got trapped in the door,felt a fool I tell ya!
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lol
Dairylea
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Post by lol on Jan 30, 2012 8:42:33 GMT
"Came after the Beatles" is the key phrase in your pointless argument Gryffe. You should check your history a bit closer. There would have been no playground for the artists you mention were it not for the Fab Four. Did you see that BBC 4 programme on Friday about the British invasion of America? Rock & Roll was buried by the time the Beatles got there and they woke it up again. They opened it all up for everyone; Dylan, The Byrds, The Doors, The Velvets, yes and even Iggy and his scurvy crew. Don't think I don't know about this stuff, I bought Raw Power in 1973!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2012 13:01:10 GMT
Lol, in the Sscots vernacular - Pish!
Check wot I wrote
"who all came after The Beatles and were in no shape or form influenced by the trite juvenile sentimental crap The Beatles specialised in"
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2012 13:32:35 GMT
I have a confession to make...on this site I have stated many times my dislike for the Beatles but on a recent "stock take" realised that I own every single one of their albums & during a recent drunken pub singalong night realised that I new the words to every single one of their sickly hits. Now if the same DJ had played constant tunes by the Pretty Things,MC5,Velvet Underground,Fugs,Deviants,New York Dolls,13th Floor Elevators or The Sonics I can't promise I'd know every lyric word perfect...so YES I do like the Beatles.........I met a hero of mine,I shook his hand,got trapped in the door,felt a fool I tell ya! Charmed to meet ya Eat y'self fitter Up the stairs mister Eat y'self fitter Became a recluse And bought a computer Set it up in the home Elusive big one On the screen Saw the Holy Ghost, I swear On the screen Where's the cursor? Where's the eraser? Where's the cursor? Where's the eraser? G-O-H-O-H-O-I-O G-O-H-O-H-O-I-O G-O-H-O-H-O-I-O H-O-I-O-G-O-H-O What's a computer?
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lol
Dairylea
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Post by lol on Jan 30, 2012 17:24:33 GMT
I saw what you wrote, but its nonsense, isn't it?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2012 17:44:01 GMT
Lol, Ultimately its all subjective if The Fall are greater than The Beatles, but I know I am right! Even at a tender age in the late 60's I disliked them, so this isn't me trying to be all cool and uppity about it. Then as a teen I remember a friend trying to foist the "red" and "blue" Beatles singles comps on me, but I wasn't having it. I just couldn't play them, I kept taking them off the record player and putting on my Bowie, Iggy, T Rex and Lou Reed albums instead. (and my Queen albums - but dont tell anybody else, christ knows what I was thinking about there!!)
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lol
Dairylea
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Post by lol on Jan 31, 2012 8:47:40 GMT
Aaaah! Your all soft and cuddly really, aren't you. I never liked the Beatles when I was a kid in the sixties, I thought they were for girls. But I Am The Walrus and Strawberry Fields Forever blew my childish mind. That's powerful stuff for a thirteen year old previously only moved by Baloo the bear's Bear Nesecities or King Louie's I Wanna Be Like You.
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Post by Benj52 on Jan 31, 2012 11:30:24 GMT
But Jock, aren't you a bit worried about the fact MES is a Tory twat?
Politically speaking, the Beatles are far more saintly, surely.
Give Ireland Back to the Irish, and all that.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2012 11:59:07 GMT
Yeah, what do you do when your career is on the wane and you need to drum up publicity for your turgid career? Oh, I know, you release a "controversial" single that you KNOW will be banned. Worked for that prick, just as it did for The Pistols and Frankie GTH over the years.
I couldn't care less about MES's alleged politics, just like I don't care that Bowie flirted with facism, Joy Division and New Order didnt choose the most PC names for the band. I'm surprised that you haven't pointed out that some of the music I listened to as a teen like Bowie, Bolan, Queen, Lou Reed and Iggy was made by a bunch of make up wearing queers, shock horror! Lots of musicians are tw%ts, its what makes them what they are in a lot of cases. So what if MES is a Tory, you will of course point me to the evidence of this, not that I care.
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lol
Dairylea
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Post by lol on Jan 31, 2012 12:08:31 GMT
Yeah but he did follow it up with the lovely Mary Had A Little lamb...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2012 12:27:19 GMT
... and who can forget the game changing Mull Of Kintyre.
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Post by Benj52 on Jan 31, 2012 12:38:12 GMT
Evidence??? This is a reggae forum!
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Post by finbar on Jan 31, 2012 21:58:59 GMT
Gryffe, first of all, welcome back. It's been quiet without you.
Secondly, I have never seen you actually state your own opinion about music. You use terms like "important" and "influential", and you repeatedly cite the same hoarey cast of "pre-punk" influencers that you have dutifully read about in the NME and other rags. Real music lovers don't care about "important" and "influential", they simply are moved by what moves them.
To state that The Fall are ANYWHERE close to The Beatles in either musicality, creativity or influence is absolute time-wasting folley, ranking right up there with some other claims you have made about the likes of PIL and other "influential" but tuneless shitsters/hipsters. How long will it take you to settle in before you start name dropping Can and NEU! so you can ensure that all your John Lydon bases are covered? Challenging? You bet they are, but for different reasons than you may think.
Tell me something you like that ISN'T the darling of the musical press, you name-dropping lover of pock-faced feeble crack addicts.
Oh, and did I mention that we missed you?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2012 22:31:01 GMT
Finbar, I talk about what I know musically. My obsession with the 70's artists I mention, as well as the punk/post punk scenes and US alternative bands of the late 70's and early 80s in particular are what inspires me, its what I know about. Adjectives are just a way I use to describe something that I bash out quickly on a keyboard; lazy I know but then again I don't write for a living. I don't claim to be able to adequately translate the way I feel about music in this medium, thats a gift I don't have and I'll leave that to other posters who are more skilled than I. Its a pity we couldn't have hooked up last summer in Canada. Then we could have had a long in depth chat about music that "moves" me and I reckon I would have been able to convince you to let me join the "real music lovers" club, of which you are the president no doubt Maybe next time.
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Post by finbar on Jan 31, 2012 22:50:26 GMT
Just checking to see that your reflexes are still working my man. Yes, it's too bad we didn't connect. I didn't even know you were here until you returned home and posted about it.
Cheers.
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Post by I on Feb 1, 2012 10:00:25 GMT
Just like Neil Lennon. Visits Canada and doesn't tell Mr Kingston about it until he arrives back home.
Finbar, the "pock-faced feeble crack addicts" quote could have been mine. Have you been reading my prose or something? I cannot understand how a grown man can have a bunch of pasty face drug takers as his heroes. Especially when he rages long and hard against anyone else other than his beloved artists taking drugs. Not only can these people not write a tune, cobble together an intelligible lyric or promote themselves as anything other than 50s retro teen rebels, but they've been foolings clowns like Lennon for 35 years with their piffle. The Beatles were indeed a feeble pop band but these jokers like Pil and Bowie and Joy Division were not even that, merely a troupe of dissatisfied teenagers farting noisily. Johnny Rotten was fabulous in 1975 and 1976, not because of his music but due to his attitude, his spiky hair and the safety pin on his chest. After that, he became a fat, drunken Irish boor.
Reel
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2012 12:07:05 GMT
You're happy with your novelty music Reel. I'm happy with the music I like, which somebody with your schizophrenic afflictions could probably not comprehend. But forgive me, I keep forgetting how old and redundant you are - even my dad liked some Joy Division.
And you exeggerate my love for PIL. The debut single was fantastic, Metal Box is a towering achievement, but the rest of their output is patchy in the extreme. I've said on here before that Lydon is a bit of a tw*t. For a man who seems to obsessively study everything I write on here I would have expected you to have known this, but I guess you're not known as the non observer for nothing. And Finbar and I did indeed talk about meeting up a good 6 months BEFORE I went to Canada, but it was never followed up. Mainly because its a big freaking country, I was there with my family (doing family things), we spent some time down in New York as well. Then again you've rarely ventured outside of London, never mind travelled abroad so you wouldn't understand the time restrictions of foreign travel.They say travel broadens the mind, non travelling no doubt leads to the insular crap that you spout on here. Just think how much travelling you could have done if you hadn't cocked up your journalistic career or if you hadn't blown it at the start up of Pressure Sounds. No wonder you come across as a bitter and jealous old git, just a little englander at heart.
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