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Post by Benj52 on Feb 16, 2010 10:30:41 GMT
Feb 16, 1985 is the date of Tenor Saw's recording of 'Pumpkin Belly' according to Beth Lesser, so the Sleng-Teng riddim must have been going a few days/weeks before that. She describes how " 'Sleng Teng' versions were being cut on dub, one after another" in the week or so prior to the clash with Black Scorpio vs King Jammy's Super Power at Waltham Park Road, Sat Feb 23, 1985: the public debut of digital reggae.
Big up Tupps the selector:
"The bass sound that was coming out of those boxes was like nothing that had been heard before. It was absolutely clean - powerful and pounding. It just stopped your heart."
As Jammy says of his audienece:
Them love me. And me love them too.
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Post by I on Feb 16, 2010 13:04:11 GMT
The first digital record I bought was 'Tempo' by Anthony Redrose. I even know the date. October 15, 1985. My son was born that day at the Mother's Hospital in Clapton, opposite Regal Records. I purchased the record from Eddie Regal, shortly after watching my baby delivered.
Reel
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Post by finbar on Feb 16, 2010 13:12:38 GMT
**Feb 16, 1985 is the date of Tenor Saw's recording of 'Pumpkin Belly' according to Beth Lesser, so the Sleng-Teng riddim must have been going a few days/weeks before that.**
Jammy's was in a rush to record more versions, and he did so over the next few days. "Sleng Teng" had been out a few weeks in the U.K. after Greensleeves released it to growing success. Tenorsaw's first attempt was a full tone flat, and after pointing this out, Jammy's made him re-record it.
The Waltham Park dance was a classic. At one point, the police arrived to search the crowd looking for a suspect. As they entered the gate, John Wayne took the mike and started his "call the police for me...." lyric. Pure pandemonium.
Tupps' comment isn't exaggeration, that new sound delivered through Jammy's new boxes was like nothing else at the time. Poor Jack didn't stand a chance that night.
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Post by ZarcyD on Feb 16, 2010 13:51:59 GMT
The first digital record I bought was 'Tempo' by Anthony Redrose. I even know the date. October 15, 1985. My son was born that day at the Mother's Hospital in Clapton, opposite Regal Records. I purchased the record from Eddie Regal, shortly after watching my baby delivered. Reel What a great way to remember a tune....
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Post by smallaxe on Feb 16, 2010 16:20:21 GMT
Dear Ben,
Tempo came first, but it wasn't 85. It was late 84. When I was working on the King Tubby's Small Axe File- I studied the Dub Vendors lists - and there it was. Tubby must have re-released it in early 85 probably around the same time as Sleng Teng.
Of course Sleng Teng was the bigger hit. But both are great tunes.
It seems like yesterday!!!
Take care, all the very best Ray
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Post by Mrs Trellis on Feb 16, 2010 18:42:13 GMT
Many happy returns Sleng Teng!
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Post by rasadam on Feb 16, 2010 18:52:28 GMT
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Post by Benj52 on Feb 17, 2010 10:55:08 GMT
Interesting, Ray - so you are saying Jammy's re-cut the King Tubby original as a digital version and that while the digital version is indeed a first, it is not an original tune of Jammy's?
Didn't know that!
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Post by smallaxe on Feb 17, 2010 11:39:21 GMT
Dear Ben,
I have been trying to track down a cut of 'Tempo' before the one for Tubbys - and have never found one. Although talking to Dennis Alcapone once about this mighty rhythm, he thinks there is one. Jammy recut it after it hit for Tubby. In the same way that Tubby licked over 'Sleng Teng' or I think he did?
One of the best human cuts of 'Tempo' came from Skeng Don. The Roots Radics band. My favourite digital rhythm is 'Look How The People Dancing' from Kenny Knots produced by Jah Tubby. Could have done with a nice rhythm album of that rhythm!!!
Take care, all the very best Ray
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Post by finbar on Feb 17, 2010 13:03:03 GMT
Dear Ben, I have been trying to track down a cut of 'Tempo' before the one for Tubbys - and have never found one. Although talking to Dennis Alcapone once about this mighty rhythm, he thinks there is one. Jammy recut it after it hit for Tubby. In the same way that Tubby licked over 'Sleng Teng' or I think he did? One of the best human cuts of 'Tempo' came from Skeng Don. The Roots Radics band. My favourite digital rhythm is 'Look How The People Dancing' from Kenny Knots produced by Jah Tubby. Could have done with a nice rhythm album of that rhythm!!! Take care, all the very best Ray Hi Ray Would love to hear an older "human" version of "Tempo", please let us know how your search turns out. Hugh Mundell's "Run Revolution A Come" has a similar, but not identical rhythm melodically to "Tempo", but they aren't one-in-same. Jammy's did a re-cut of that "Run..." rhythm with The High Times band.....don't know if it was ever finally released, but he used to have a wicked dubplate of Patrick Andy on that one with a track called "Music Market". Tubby did indeed lick over "Sleng Teng".........."Hell In A Town" by Wayne Palmer is one example. Hope all is well with you and yours.
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Post by smallaxe on Feb 17, 2010 15:01:13 GMT
Dear Finbar,
I loved the bassline to 'Tempo' I did try hard to find something older than it. Colin, was talking to Blacka Dread and he said the same thing about 'Tempo'. The Radics played it very well, and they have fitted another melody on top of it - which could be a clue.
Thank you for the tip on Wayne Palmer, everyone as got a cut of 'Sleng Teng' it would have been strange for Tubby not to cut it.
Regards to everyone. Take care, all the very best Ray
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Post by finbar on Feb 17, 2010 15:23:52 GMT
Hi Ray
Would the Radics cut be "Rum Tree"? The melody of the two songs is the same, and while the bassline is somewhat different, it's also in a minor key. I have this on a Blue Monutain 12".
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Post by I on Feb 17, 2010 15:54:49 GMT
Ray, Jah Tubby had nothing to do with the production of Kenny Knots' 'Look How The People Them Dancing'. This was produced at the Roots Pool studio in Sandringham Road by Ruddy Ranks and Red Eye. The engineer was Sid Bucknor.
Reel
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Post by Benj52 on Feb 17, 2010 16:03:11 GMT
I think Ray was talking about his favourite digital tune, Penny.
Thanks to all contributing to this thread, I am learning quite a lot.
I will return to the history books tonight as I was always under the impression that Sleng Teng was a new riddim as well as in a new style - all that stuff about Wayne Smith programming his Casio, losing it and finding it again might just turn out to be a great story... he was just replicating a current Tubby hit???
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Post by kalcidis on Feb 17, 2010 16:07:15 GMT
Who did »Rum Tree«?
This is the first time I've heard that Tempo pre-dates Sleng Teng. I know other digital songs have been produced prior to Sleng Teng but I was always under the impression that Tempo was Tubby's response to Jammy's omnipotent new rhythm.
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Post by Benj52 on Feb 17, 2010 16:12:41 GMT
Speaking of Kenny: Kenny Knots live at the Artschool Mungo's Hi Fi full Sound System live with Kenny Knots Saturday 20th February 11pm-3am Glasgow School of Art, 167 Renfrew St, G3 6RQ Scotland Tickets £5 in advance from www.scotchbonnet.net £8 on the door, all tribes welcome (£5 for artschool students) Pre-club at the CCA Bar with Argonaut Sounds 9-12 We can’t get enough of Kenny. Every time, without fail, he rips it up on the mic. He loves to sing and his joy is infectious. We love a session, so we'll be getting guest appearances from Northern Exposure, Daddy Scotty and Pupa Zeb to nice up the vibes in a Scotland style. Join us for a night of reggae, dub and dancehall the way it should be heard. Kenny live with us in Warsaw www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPVqA0nZ97MKenny live with us in Amsterdam www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWiEDZVA214Kenny on myspace www.myspace.com/kennyknots1stBook your tickets here www.scotchbonnet.net
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Post by Benj52 on Feb 17, 2010 16:14:47 GMT
Really??? V interesting, Kal.
What other digital tunes pre-date Sleng Teng in terms of JA/UK release?
Which studios?
What is the source of that information?
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Post by The Favorite on Feb 17, 2010 16:18:15 GMT
paul blake and bloodfire posse came before sleng teng
there are a handful of them
but it was sleng teng that broke digital through the roof
--
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Post by kalcidis on Feb 17, 2010 16:34:57 GMT
Two other would also be »Herman Hustling« produced and sung by Sugar Minott and »Sensi Addick« produced by Prince Jazzbo and sung by Horace Ferguson. Great songs both of them.
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Post by finbar on Feb 17, 2010 16:39:37 GMT
This is a slippery slope.
Lots of songs used digital technology prior to "Sleng Teng". Sly & Robbie's "Herbman Hustling" rhythm used sequencers and a keyboard bass. The afore-mentioned "Get Flat" is another. Steelie & Cleavie were cutting digital rhythms for Black Star sound before "Sleng Teng", and before Jammy's employed them to create rhythms for him. You can hear drum machines in reggae that pre-date Sleng Teng by 10 years or more as well (Scratch and Familyman used them often). Bob Marley's "Johnny Was" uses a drum machine, for example.
"Sleng Teng" revolutionized music because it was an entriely different composition structure based on a setting that Wayne & Noel "discovered" in the Casio (a rock pre-set that was based on an Eddie Cocharan song. They had to convince people to cut it, and then play it. It was a sound from the streets.
Jamaica has always adopted technology used in foreign, so it's application seems to be more of a question of "when" and not "if". It was gradually being integrated into the music alrteady, but the advent of "Sleng Teng" moved it forward in a faster, and different direction. That's why it's a landmark, not because it's the first song to deploy digital technology in part or whole.
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Post by smallaxe on Feb 17, 2010 16:43:59 GMT
Dear Penny,
Of course mi friend. You are correct, I am getting my Jah Tubby's mixed up with Unity. Never heard of that studio, and Sid was the engineer!!!! One of the greatest digital tunes ever. Regards to the man if you see him upon your travels.
Take care, all the very best Ray
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Post by Benj52 on Feb 17, 2010 16:48:52 GMT
I see, that makes sense to me Finbar. I love 'Sensi Addict' and note that it was a 1984 release and that it doesn't sound like much else around at the time.
I guess I will think of Sleng Teng as a bit like Blue Monday by New Order (03/1983) - when I took a mono cassette copy I recorded from a pre-release 12" on NZ radio, first or second week in March 1983, and played it at a party, it had a SENSATIONAL effect - I had to play it 9 or 10 more times over because no one had ever heard anything like it before.
But it is not the first dance record or first anything really - it was the arrangement and the SOUND of it which impresssed us.
Even the boot boys (skinhead types) danced. Great memory.
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Post by smallaxe on Feb 17, 2010 16:49:07 GMT
Dear Finbar,
I only ever heard of Nicodemus DJ over the 'Tempo' cut from Skengdon. I think it was on a Stur Mars sound tape that you sent me!!!
Don't know 'Rum Tree' at all. Great title though!!
Take care, all the very best Ray
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Post by smallaxe on Feb 17, 2010 16:55:42 GMT
Dear Mash,
Everyone thinks that 'Sleng Teng' came first. I did, until I was searching out for Waterhouse and Firehouse productions and came across it in the Dub Vendors list either Oct 1984 or Nov 1984.
The real story about the digital revolution goes back a little earlier when Steely and Clevie were snubbed by everyone with there early productions. And then you have the story of how Steely got such a deep bass sound out of the keyboard - he dropped it!!!
Take care, all the very best Ray
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Post by finbar on Feb 17, 2010 16:55:55 GMT
Dear Finbar, I only ever heard of Nicodemus DJ over the 'Tempo' cut from Skengdon. I think it was on a Stur Mars sound tape that you sent me!!! Don't know 'Rum Tree' at all. Great title though!! Take care, all the very best Ray Hi Ray I'll dig out the 12" and make an mp3 of it.....just got a new stylus. Nice nice tune about the evils of being a rumhead.
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Post by smallaxe on Feb 17, 2010 17:04:51 GMT
Lots of songs used digital technology prior to "Sleng Teng". Sly & Robbie's "Herbman Hustling" rhythm used sequencers and a keyboard bass. The afore-mentioned "Get Flat" is another. Steelie & Cleavie were cutting digital rhythms for Black Star sound before "Sleng Teng", and before Jammy's employed them to create rhythms for him. You can hear drum machines in reggae that pre-date Sleng Teng by 10 years or more as well (Scratch and Familyman used them often). Bob Marley's "Johnny Was" uses a drum machine, for example.
"Sleng Teng" revolutionized music because it was an entriely different composition structure based on a setting that Wayne & Noel "discovered" in the Casio (a rock pre-set that was based on an Eddie Cocharan song. They had to convince people to cut it, and then play it. It was a sound from the streets.
Dear Finbar,
You live and learn, I knew Steely and Clevie were working on digital productions - but never knew they were for Black Star. With 'Sleng Time' its time had. And as we all, nothing ever happens before its time!!! And many thanks in advance for the MP3 of 'Rum Tree' is it a Skengdon production?
Take care, all the very best Ray
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Post by kalcidis on Feb 17, 2010 17:13:47 GMT
Ray, there is also one other GREAT song on Skengdons cut of Tempo. Papa Santress (who really is Papa Sancho) doing »Dance In A Mount Zion«.
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Post by rasadam on Feb 17, 2010 17:37:54 GMT
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Post by finbar on Feb 17, 2010 19:22:35 GMT
Hi Ray
>And many thanks in advance for the MP3 of 'Rum Tree' is it a Skengdon production?
Definitely not an SD production......I believe it's self-produced by the group.
I don't know how many sessions The Radics actually did for The Don, must of his stuff was recorded in Miami, backed by the Fat Man Riddim Guys.
As for Black Star - these were done as instrumental riddims. I am pretty certain that you have a Black Star tape with Briggy, Malvo, Earl Cunningham and Tiger from either late 84 or early 85. The last ten minutes of side two has Briggy and Tiger riding a Steelie & Cleavie re-working of Slim Smith's "Happy Times", which they later re-cut for Jammys....he voiced Nitty Gritty on it ("Sweet Reggae Music") as well as others.
If you don't have it, I'll dub a copy. The resident tape lady has all of these nicely filed downstairs for realtively easy access.
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Post by zonard on Feb 17, 2010 22:17:52 GMT
all that stuff about Wayne Smith programming his Casio, losing it and finding it again might just turn out to be a great story... he was just replicating a current Tubby hit??? The "losing the preset" part seems a fantasy since the preset is just a button to switch on the Casio, as Adam link points out. The Tempo release late 1984 is something totally new for me, Ray, could you please post a scan of the DV list ?
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